{BBB: “One more question, because I know you have to go. What’s in your fridge right now?”
They’re not evil and all this. You know, they’re good people.” BBB: “So you’re not going to name drop any breweries or what?”
BBB: “Well that sort of leads me to a criticism I’ve often heard about the OCB. There are a lot of small or smallish craft brewers who are fairly successful and they aren’t interested in becoming members. From what I’ve heard, it’s largely because they feel that the OCB represents the interests of your larger members than your smaller ones. So like, the OCB is happy to help Beau’s and Steam Whistle operate in the existing system and doesn’t want to rock the boat, and maybe the OCB isn’t catering to these smaller guys who have different needs. I know you’ve only been in it 12 weeks, but what would you say to that?”
[…]
[…]
SS: “Well, I started by drinking the beers by the guys on my board, which is a smart move. So I’m drinking a lot of Great Lakes, Camerons, Muskoka, Beaus, All or Nothing, Sleeping Giant, Flying Monkeys, Sawdust City–” BBB: “OK, you’re just naming them all now.”
BBB: “OK, so you want them to see the value. What do you say to those small brewers? Let’s hear your pitch.”
There’s a way to continue to grow the association without that GF funding if we have to but we have to continue to advocate government because there are subsidies and grants that our members can capitalize on.”
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There's going to be 300 brewers in this province. We have 82 members. The first think I'm going to do is find a way to talk to the other 218 and find a way to say, "Come on, get in the boat." Because if we're truly going to represent the industry, we need as close to 100% membership as we can get. And if we can get that membership, that's a source of funds, and there are other sources of funds I'm looking at that I won't elaborate on right now.
Molson and Labatt are not bad people. There is a market for that kind of beer, but there is a growing market or growing taste that only craft brewers can meet. And there is a growing demand toward supporting local and supporting people who are putting money back in the economy, supporting local jobs, being part of the communty–that's a big part of the culture of craft beer and the people that support it. I see no reason that, with a few changes, craft beer can't get to a 20% market share.
SS: "Well, it's growing, let me put it that way. Consider that I worked for TBS and grew up in Brantford, Ontario, the beer-guzzling capital of the world. I admittedly have drank a lot of mainstream beer my entire life. But ever since I started kicking the tires on this job, I've been experimenting and my palate is slowly changing. I'm drinking some IPAs now, but lower on the bitterness scale. I couldn't drink the bitter stuff at first. Although, interestingly enough, and the guys I've been working with told me this would happen, I try to go back to Coors Light now and I go "Fuck, that's not beer." So my tastes are slowly changing. I haven't gotten into porters and stouts yet–the odd wheat beer–but my palate is changing, especially now that I know what goes into the process."
The CEO of Golf Canada, Scott Simmons was Vice President, marketing and business development for The Beer Store, and he led that organization's development of a long range plan.
Published at Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:37:56 +0000
Craft brewers in Ontario are still “the little guys,” and to my mind, there are a few big guys they have to do battle with and one of them is The Beer Store. You come from The Beer Store. How do you reconcile that? I’ve talked to some OCB members and, the consensus is generally “who better to help us in that system,” but there are also a lot of guys that want to blow up that system. In March 2015, I watched Darren Smith, the owner of Lake of Bays Brewery and the Vice Chair of the Ontario Craft Brewers, give an impassioned speech directly to provincial politicians, basically saying “Let us have our own stores.” But given your Beer Store background, does this signify that the OCB is content to work within that system, or are stores still a goal?”
SS: “No, I’ve literally had some of all those beers in my fridge in the last four weeks. I haven’t landed on my go-to yet. I’m still in my experimental mode.”
SS: “I kind of don’t agree with that. I’ve seen in my short tenure, I’ve seen great camaraderie between brewers of all sizes. Our board has the big guys on it and the small guys on it. I think a lot of things the OCB is doing caters to smaller brewers. The biggest problem that I’ve seen in 12 weeks is that the value proposition of membership is not well understood. That’s priority one for me. Crystallizing the value proposition and telling people what we’re doing. Sure, there are going to be things that help some brewers and not others. There’s a tax issue I’m working on for example, that will only impact brewers once they get to a certain size, and a lot of our brewers will never get there or don’t even dream of getting there. So for sure thats for them. But then there’s other things. The first tax legislation John Hay worked on greatly helped the little guys, but there are some other incentives were working on every day. The short answer is that in my 10-12 weeks here when I chat with all the various consultants we have, they are working with every brewer every day an they don’t discriminate.”
The OCB boasts 82 members and is the only organization representing the interests of small brewers in the province. Accordingly, the role of president is one that could be pivotal in shaping the future of craft beer in Ontario. I reached out to Simmons and managed to catch him during a free half hour when he was literally driving to Queen’s Park to talk beer with provincial politicians and we discussed what he’s been up to in his first 12 weeks on the job, what we could expect following for beer in Ontario, and, importantly, what a newly-craft-converted and self-described “blue collar” guy from Brantford (who went to high school with Gretzky no less) likes to drink. What follows is an edited transcript of those things Simmons was prepared to go on the record about (also worth noting: I knew we only had 30 minutes, so I tried to cut to the chase).
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Molson and Labatt are not happy. Their share was declining when I worked there and I believe that trend has continued. One share point in this province is worth like $30 million and that system is slowly but surely eroding from them.
I am n the midst of writing a plan. I think John did a excellent job writing his plan that got the institution where they are now but it’s a vastly different landscape, going from like 12 brewers to 270 and growing, if you include builders. The association has to develop that. Are we representing the members or the business? I wish to represent the business. The vast majority of our members are under 5000 hec–under 2000 hec even–so a huge part of our value proposition has to signify those brewers.”
If you do your job well and you can market your product well, the Beer Store can be a boon to you, and there are a number of brewers who are doing quite well in the Beer Store. It’s not set up though for the smaller guys.”
The cost of service, or if you’re just trying to move one hectolitre of beer, the Beer Store is by far the most efficient distribution system–”
SS: “Well, it’s growing, let me put it that way. Consider that I worked for TBS and grew up in Brantford, Ontario, the beer-guzzling capital of the world. I admittedly have drank a lot of mainstream beer my entire life. But ever since I started kicking the tires on this job, I’ve been experimenting and my palate is slowly changing. I’m drinking some IPAs now, but lower on the bitterness scale. I couldn’t drink the bitter stuff at first. Although, interestingly enough, and the guys I’ve been working with told me this would happen, I try to go back to Coors Light now and I go “Fuck, that’s not beer.” So my tastes are slowly changing. I haven’t gotten into porters and stouts yet–the odd wheat beer–but my palate is changing, especially now that I know what goes into the process.”
BBB: “So you’re not going to name drop any breweries or what?”
To come back to your first point about stores, is it still on the table for us? Absolutely. But if Im being realistic, I’m not sure that’s going to happen in the next couple years. They’re not going to touch anything new with retail unit grocery is fully implemented. And we’ll see some things that may or may not happen with the LCBO and The Beer Store.
SS: “I don’t have any problem being vocal. The government has been a terrific supporter of the business and quite honestly I don’t think the industry would be where it is without government support. Thank them for that and you have to recognize that, but at the same time, it doesnt’ stop there if there are things that need to be dealt with that are unfair or that are actually going to help the government. […] I wouldn’t call it “rock the boat” or just continue to advocate but our government funding through Growing Forward 2 comes to an end this year. And I knew that before I took the job. So I’m literally walking into an association with a very small budget that has zero government funding in it. So, I’m actually maybe in a better position as I–what would I call it? –I’m not beholden to them as I go in and talk to government.
Molson and Labatt are not bad people. There is a market for that kind of beer, but there is a growing market or growing taste that only craft brewers can meet. And there is a growing demand toward supporting local and supporting people who are putting money back in the economy, supporting local jobs, being part of the communty–that’s a big part of the culture of craft beer and the people that support it. I see no reason that, with a few changes, craft beer can’t get to a 20% market share.
SS: “I kind of don’t agree with that. I’ve seen in my short tenure, I’ve seen great camaraderie between brewers of all sizes. Our board has the big guys on it and the small guys on it. I think a lot of things the OCB is doing caters to smaller brewers. The biggest problem that I’ve seen in 12 weeks is that the value proposition of membership is not well understood. That’s priority one for me. Crystallizing the value proposition and telling people what we’re doing. Sure, there are going to be things that help some brewers and not others. There’s a tax issue I’m working on for example, that will only impact brewers once they get to a certain size, and a lot of our brewers will never get there or don’t even dream of getting there. So for sure thats for them. But then there’s other things. The first tax legislation John Hay worked on greatly helped the little guys, but there are some other incentives were working on every day. The short answer is that in my 10-12 weeks here when I chat with all the various consultants we have, they are working with every brewer every day an they don’t discriminate.” BBB: “Well that sort of leads me to a criticism I’ve often heard about the OCB. There are a lot of small or smallish craft brewers who are fairly successful and they aren’t interested in becoming members. From what I’ve heard, it’s largely because they feel that the OCB represents the interests of your larger members than your smaller ones. So like, the OCB is happy to help Beau’s and Steam Whistle operate in the existing system and doesn’t want to rock the boat, and maybe the OCB isn’t catering to these smaller guys who have different needs. I know you’ve only been in it 12 weeks, but what would you say to that?”
BBB: “OK, so you want them to see the value. What do you say to those small brewers? Let’s hear your pitch.”
Published at Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:37:56 +0000
SS: “Well, they’re paying–and I don’t have the fee schedule in front of me–let’s call it $500. Well, there’s a number of marketing initiatives you can get involved with. There’s the assistance with the LCBO–their merchandising program can be a nightmare if you’re new. We have an expert on staff. One of the consultants who manages all the craft brewer buy-ins into that program. We’ve got government grants that subsidize the buy-in to that merchandising program. Another area is data. I don’t know if you know how data flows from the LCBO, but it’s pretty arduous. You get these big complicated flat fills that don’t tell you anything. It really takes someone with analytics to mine the data. And what the OCB can do for a brewer that doesn’t have those resources or smarts, is we can help you understand what markets you should be in based on what your objectives are, we can help you get monthly data to help you understand your sales, your shipments, your sales by store–you know, those are just a few examples of services that we can provide. And not a lot of people are taking us ip on these because quite frankly I don’t think lot of people know they’re available.”
Molson and Labatt are not happy. Their share was declining when I worked there and I believe that trend has continued. One share point in this province is worth like $30 million and that system is slowly but surely eroding from them.
BBB: “One more question, because I know you have to go. What’s in your fridge right now?”
BBB: “I agree.”
The CEO of Golf Canada, Scott Simmons was Vice President, marketing and business development for The Beer Store, and he led that organization’s development of a long range plan.
There’s a way to continue to grow the association without that GF funding if we have to but we have to continue to advocate government because there are subsidies and grants that our members can capitalize on.”
SS: “I kind of don’t agree with that. I’ve seen in my short tenure, I’ve seen great camaraderie between brewers of all sizes. Our board has the big guys on it and the small guys on it. I think a lot of things the OCB is doing caters to smaller brewers. The biggest problem that I’ve seen in 12 weeks is that the value proposition of membership is not well understood. That’s priority one for me. Crystallizing the value proposition and telling people what we’re doing. Sure, there are going to be things that help some brewers and not others. There’s a tax issue I’m working on for example, that will only impact brewers once they get to a certain size, and a lot of our brewers will never get there or don’t even dream of getting there. So for sure thats for them. But then there’s other things. The first tax legislation John Hay worked on greatly helped the little guys, but there are some other incentives were working on every day. The short answer is that in my 10-12 weeks here when I chat with all the various consultants we have, they are working with every brewer every day an they don’t discriminate.” BBB: “OK, you’re just naming them all now.”
SS: “Well, I started by drinking the beers by the guys on my board, which is a smart move. So I’m drinking a lot of Great Lakes, Camerons, Muskoka, Beaus, All or Nothing, Sleeping Giant, Flying Monkeys, Sawdust City–”
SS: “No, I’ve literally had some of all those beers in my fridge in the last four weeks. I haven’t landed on my go-to yet. I’m still in my experimental mode.”
SS: “I don’t have any problem being vocal. The government has been a terrific supporter of the business and quite honestly I don’t think the industry would be where it is without government support. Thank them for that and you have to recognize that, but at the same time, it doesnt’ stop there if there are things that need to be dealt with that are unfair or that are actually going to help the government. […] I wouldn’t call it “rock the boat” or just continue to advocate but our government funding through Growing Forward 2 comes to an end this year. And I knew that before I took the job. So I’m literally walking into an association with a very small budget that has zero government funding in it. So, I’m actually maybe in a better position as I–what would I call it? –I’m not beholden to them as I go in and talk to government.
[…]
Molson and Labatt are not bad people. There is a market for that kind of beer, but there is a growing market or growing taste that only craft brewers can meet. And there is a growing demand toward supporting local and supporting people who are putting money back in the economy, supporting local jobs, being part of the communty–that’s a big part of the culture of craft beer and the people that support it. I see no reason that, with a few changes, craft beer can’t get to a 20% market share. Tags: ontario craft brewers, Scott Simmons, The Beer Store
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